Bruce Schneier in Beyond Fear coined a phrase:
one of the goals of a security countermeasure is to provide people with a feeling of security in addition to the reality. But some countermeasures provide the feeling of security instead of the reality. These are nothing more than security theater. They're palliative at best.
The Common Names debâcle at Google Plus is a variant of this, where the supposed protections are manifestly not working. Google's stated policy on this is that you should use your 'common name' - normatively defined to have exactly two words in it, in a naïve English speaking way, that fails in a huge number of common English cases, let alone other languages.
he is trying to make sure a positive tone gets set here. Like when a restaurant doesn't allow people who aren't wearing shirts to enter.
so it is explicitly designed to exclude 'people not like us' from the space.
Early users can set the tone for a network, but one that has aspirations to include most people will need to support multiple different communities within it. If you want a positive tone, you have to work at it, and empower the tummlers to maintain it. Teresa Nielsen-Hayden put it well:
1. There can be no ongoing discourse without some degree of moderation, if only to kill off the hardcore trolls. It takes rather more moderation than that to create a complex, nuanced, civil discourse. If you want that to happen, you have to give of yourself. Providing the space but not tending the conversation is like expecting that your front yard will automatically turn itself into a garden.
2. Once you have a well-established online conversation space, with enough regulars to explain the local mores to newcomers, they’ll do a lot of the policing themselves.
More from Teresa and from John Scalzi.
The initial flavour of Google Plus, because it was seeded by Googlers and other geeky folk they invited, was like pre-Eternal September Usenet - it had a cultural coherence because we were all geeks. As it grew to 25 million users, this could not hold.
Blogs deal with this by making it clear who the site owners are, and empowering them to manage commenters. Twitter does it by not showing you comments unless you chose to see the commenter, or if they address you directly. Google Plus is an uneasy hybrid of the two.
You can delete and block commenters on your postings, like a blog, and if you reshare someone's post, it starts a new comment thread, like a blog. However, anyone can @ or + your name and drag you into another comment thread via notification, and then you get notified of other follow-ups too, making griefing and harassment all too easy.
Enforcing 'common names' does nothing to help this; it just means your trolls and griefers will be using plausibly American-looking names that may or may not be their own, while those with unusual names, will either be excluded outright or easily preyed on by the griefers reporting them, which is what I suspect happened to Violet Blue tonight.
Once you are suspended, the verification process is crude and manual, and also easily gamed. Kellan warned about this problem:
If you’ve never run a social software site … let me tell you: these kinds of false positives are expensive.
They’re really expensive. They burn your most precious resources when running a startup: good will, and time. Your support staff has to address the issues (while people are yelling at them), your engineers are in the database mucking about with columns, until they finally break down about build an unbanning tool which inevitably doesn’t scale to really massive attacks, or new interesting attack vectors, which means you’re either back monkeying with the live databases or you’ve now got a team of engineers dedicated just to building tools to remediate false positives. And now you’re burning engineer cycles, engineering motivation (cleaning up mistakes sucks), staff satisfaction AND community good will. That’s the definition of expensive.
And this is all a TON of work.
And while this is all going down you’ve got another part of your company dedicated to making creating new accounts AS EASY AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. Which means when you do find and nuke a real spammer, they’re back in minutes. So now you’re waging asymmetric warfare AGAINST YOURSELF.
This is the hole Google is now in. A surprisingly large number of people I know, who've been discussing civilly online for years, have fallen foul of Vic's Procrustean name rules. When they point this out, they're harrassed by 'Real named' dickheads telling them to shut up and change their name, both in public and by being +-summoned by the trolls, and they have to find Google plus's well-hidden blocking tools rather quickly. Or give up and go elsewhere.
Now, Google has announced that they are verifying some people's names, to prevent impersonation. Trouble is, they haven't said how . Twitter verifies celebrities via an opaque process. Amazon does it by checking your name matches a Credit Card. Google Search uses rel="me" and rel="author" microformats. What Plus does is unknown. One of my profiles is verified, possibly because I went through the verification process on Google Knol before.
This is also Identity theatre - Google saying 'trust us', rather than revealing the rel="me" link from the person's page that we already know.
Vic Gundotra needs to stop digging this hole. Scrap the normative 'common names' policy, add a coherent name verification and linked-site verification so we can tell the people we already know, and make moderation tools visible and available so we can curate the conversations ourselves.
With this, and an apology to those already ensnared by the existing process, he could maybe prevent Plus from being spoken of only alongside Wave and Knol.
- my.nameis.me has testimonials on the nuances of names
- jwz is shocked by othering of the anonymous
- The EFF's case for pseudonyms
- Journalists tempted by slumming
excellent, It will take a lot of people to work long hours, but i think its all good. I Moderated ( actually it was termed "poderator" ) on Tripod for 180,000 ( Alt.Music ) users way back in the 56k modem days... and they had no troll management tooling, but a lack of raw connect horsepower limited the flow-rate of the junk.
ReplyDeleteNow with 10 mbit connects and automation, a troublemaker can be 10,000 lunatic-fringe nutcases per minute... any autonomy simply enables the unruly population-polluting bunch to feel immune from reprisal. So something must be there to rain accountability over the whole situation.
anyone wanting to join the Diaspora pod (joindiaspora.com), let me know. You can use any UTF-8 symbol, you can have what ever name you want. No questions. period. And g+ copied gui elements form it :). Or setup your own pod, as its a federated service. Oh, and its as private as you want. And FLOSS.
ReplyDeleteYou know, I've just been part of a long conversation about Diaspora, and how it really is absolutely not ready for ANYONE outside actual Ruby coders who don't mind losing everything monthly using it - and how anyone who loses anything should not get upset because it's an alpha:
ReplyDeletehttps://plus.google.com/112962453889218205506/posts/5sELUnG4wwi
At present, Diaspora is Linux in 1994. Its advocates recommending it to normal humans as a working substitute for Facebook or G+ are actually wrong to do so.
Kevin, I'm surprised that you of all people don't see the big picture here.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't about disenfranchising the minority. Google isn't going after Twitter, LJ, Myspace, or OpenID, all of which support pseudonymous identities, and all of which failed or peaked at millions of users.
Rather, it's going straight after the heart of Facebook, which has the exact same real name policy as Google+, and has a billion users. Google is deeply worried about the growing Facebook hegemony, where every day another site switches exclusively to a Facebook login as their primary (and often only) identity. And we should be too.
The difference between Twitter, MySpace, LJ, OpenID, Friendster, and Facebook?
Real names.
Anon - you posted that comment word-for-word to jwz's blog. I call troll or shill.
ReplyDeletePeople still use Google+? Really?!??!
ReplyDeleteFriendFeed is more alive than Google+.
Kevix: I'd be interested in trying out Diaspora and possibly hosting my own pod, get in touch with me ( midnightcommando AT gmail )
ReplyDeleteMy 11th grade "social studies" teacher in California was Albert Chudleigh Long VII (faculty nickname "Chud" naturally). Nobody thought of him as Albert.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how he would have fared under G+ current policy.
John W Baxter (really)
Anon, Google's 'Common Names'policy is different from Facebook's.
ReplyDeletedanah boyd addressed the difference:
Over and over again, people keep pointing to Facebook as an example where “real names” policies work. This makes me laugh hysterically. One of the things that became patently clear to me in my fieldwork is that countless teens who signed up to Facebook late into the game chose to use pseudonyms or nicknames. What’s even more noticeable in my data is that an extremely high percentage of people of color used pseudonyms as compared to the white teens that I interviewed. Of course, this would make sense…
Several of our Newspapers here in Norway are requiring 'Offical Names'. They do have one advantage, they can link to the 'National Persons Registry' (Folkeregister) to verify the name.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you have that ~feature~,
if the stated aim is to reduce trolling and create a well mannered society surely the simplest solution is to permit the use of a pseudonym (or any other *nym the user wishes) provided you agree to tie it (secretly) to a real world identity via (for example) a token credit card transaction
ReplyDeleteRight now G+ isn't worth bothering with for normal folks. Apart from circles (which FB will no doubt clone soon) there seems to be very little value and it certainly hasn't reached a tipping point in active users (most folks I know have tried it and gone back to FB) and creating their own artificial barriers and limits certainly isn't going to help them gain traction.
Very few people online know me by legal name so enforcing it actually makes it harder for people to find and connect with me
I don't understand why Google is shooting itself in the foot like this. A few years from now if G+ is a big enough deal to attract serious advertising revenue, they would have the ability to bully people into choosing a real name. Right now G+'s audience is made up of a lot of technically minded people that really support the right to anonymity and these rumors and this this controversy detracts from its natural audience getting in love with G+. Without the unbridled support of early adopters, G+ will go absolutely nowhere in the face of such utter dominance by Facebook. With Facebook, you have big brands promoting their Facebook URLs in print and tv media, you have a large built in ecosystem of Facebook designers and advertisers listed at BuyFacebookFansReviews and other similar sites that businesses rely on, and you have a large number of people that have contributed years worth of photos and tags and everything to Facebook that they don't want to leave behind. Google has enough of an uphill road ahead of itself in the social networking sphere that its sort of questionable why this was their policy in the first place. It squanders what goodwill they have among its core audience and detracts from its real issues. I hope Google wises up because its doubtful that anybody else will have the guns to take on Facebook and the market could use some quality competition that would benefit all consumers.
ReplyDelete@Anon27YzYrUB
ReplyDeleteFacebook does not claim 1 billion users. It claims to have 750 million active users. A lot of those are corporate accounts, and some people will also run fansites or have more than one profile.
http://www.facebook.com/press/info.php?statistics
And to be fair, FB's attitude to privacy dimays me as much as Google's, to the extent that I do not have a FB account, and do not intend to open a G+ one.
Is it about Google+ accounts or previous Google accounts?
ReplyDeleteAnd why then does Google have the right of changing the ToS (agreements) retroactively and unilaterally?
I’ve Never Subscribed to either Buzz or Google+ but My Google Private Profiles ‘re Unilaterally & Retroactively Published, then Dumped, Now Will Be Suspended?
Kevin Marks: @jillydreadful with blogs you can make any word a link, so formal citations are less necessary. Quote where it is key as links rot
ReplyDeletevia twitter.com
Jilly Dreadful: @kevinmarks thanks! My question was more one of the form/constraints of blog versus more formal media.
ReplyDeletevia twitter.com
Kevin Marks: @jillydreadful @eastgate the underlying problem is slumming by those wishing to avoid consequences of their actions: epeus.blogspot.com/2007/09/journa…
ReplyDeletevia twitter.com
Mark Bernstein: @kevinmarks @jillydreadful That’s why I didn’t call for pseudonym ban. But how much must we sacrifice for the *illusion* of anonymous posts?
ReplyDeletevia twitter.com
Mark Bernstein: @kevinmarks @jillydreadful Yes, I’m familiar with the Google+ experience and with York’s arguments, though not with York.
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Mark Bernstein: @kevinmarks @jillydreadful Yes, I’m familiar with the Google+ experience and with York’s arguments, though not with York.
ReplyDeletevia twitter.com
Kevin Marks: @eastgate @jillydreadful how much we are sacrificing for the illusion that American-looking names cause civility? wired.com/2014/10/conten…
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Jilly Dreadful: @kevinmarks @eastgate it just got Monty Python in here. "And now for something completely different." Please stop tagging me.
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©̸ Sam Klein ❦: favorited this.
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